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vistin
12-17-2007, 09:12 AM
I was reading an article about a guy that built his "T" from scratch. When he got to the front end buildup he used independent front spindles. He used them for the disc brake stock setup. Has anyone ever done this?

reply to - williamsonemelit@bellsouth.net

Thanks
vistin

JOECOOL
12-17-2007, 11:02 AM
I guess I don't know what you mean by independant spindles.49 through 54 Chebby uses independant suspension but mounts the spindle with a kingpin,a lot of rods use these.You could with a little machine work make the kingpin boss and weld it to any spindle you want. The problem of any fabricated item is keeping the goemetry true. As you know the kingpin has a built in inclination as does the spindle.The distance from the center of the kingpin to the center of the tire tread is also critical.Height of the spindle in relation to the height of the axle is another factor.
I would be interested in reading the article though if you could direct me. You never know what you can learn.
best of luck

vistin
12-17-2007, 12:21 PM
This guy had taken the spindles and cut the top ball joint off about eight inches down. Then welded a plug in the bottom ball joint hole and welded a large piece near where he cut the ball joint end off. He then drilled down through both the piece he welded on into the plug in the lower ball joint area. Then he reamed it out for the bushings.
This is just a thought about doing my own front end.
Maybe I could bend the front end then install some other spindles.
vistin

RPM
12-17-2007, 02:52 PM
I don't think cuttin and welding spindles would be a good thing to do. There is just too much riding on them. (pun intended) There are just so many ways to do things with out welding spindles.

vistin
12-17-2007, 03:27 PM
RPM
I agree with you and I was surprised to see this guy did this and is driving his T. What I want to do is adapt a set of lite disk brakes. He is using some from a granada. I built a T back in the early 80's and did the chev heavy disk setup.
If you have some info on doing what I want to do I sure would appreciate the help.
vistin

RPM
12-17-2007, 09:02 PM
I am sure Wilwood makes brake kits for both the Chevy and Ford spindles.

JOECOOL
12-18-2007, 10:11 AM
I see now,in my opinion the amount of work would not justify the effort.
If you want to try this, make sure you keep the geometry correct or you won't be able to drive it very easily.If you set at eye level with your front axle &spindle you can draw an imaginary line thru the king pin to where it hits the floor. This line should end at the center of the tire tread. This assures that the tire can be turned (like in around a corner) with a minumum of effort . The further the pivot point is from the center of the tire the more strain on steering systems and wandering the front will have.The same thing happens when you put a reversed wheel on the front .
Easier and safer places to save money ,me thinks.

GAB
12-20-2007, 11:54 PM
Here is how I have done a few setups over the years. This is a spindle from a early 70's Pinto that has been converted to a kingpin type from the ball joint/independent type. Why use this particular spindle? Well, the whole cars were based on cannibalizing the Pintos entire driveline...engine, trans, rear end, front spindles and brakes and a lot of other pieces. A big plus is that the entire brake system was straight from Ford engineering.

This was not a terribly hard conversion. It basically was drilling out the ball joint tapered holes and reaming to size for a bronze bushing. On these spindles, the holes are concentric with the kingpin inclination centerline and the surfaces of the top and bottom lugs are perpendicular to the centerline. The new kingpin was made from a piece of drill rod (not finished in the pic, it needs the cap to be made and installed). It uses an off the shelf industrial ball thrust bearing on the lower end. Of course, the axle needs to be made with the tall kingpin boss and I added a steering arm as I was not going to use the Pinto rack and pinion and get into the bump steer issues with it. The steering on the front is Ackermann correct as the Pinto is a front steer car anyway.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/FrontSpindle.jpg

It can be a pretty economical way to go...IF you have the capability to do all of the work yourself...but not if you need to farm it out.

vistin
12-21-2007, 07:58 AM
Thanks for the info n pix. What is the angle of the kingpin boss in the axle. Is it 8 degrees or 9 degrees.
vistin

Here is how I have done a few setups over the years. This is a spindle from a early 70's Pinto that has been converted to a kingpin type from the ball joint/independent type. Why use this particular spindle? Well, the whole cars were based on cannibalizing the Pintos entire driveline...engine, trans, rear end, front spindles and brakes and a lot of other pieces. A big plus is that the entire brake system was straight from Ford engineering.

This was not a terribly hard conversion. It basically was drilling out the ball joint tapered holes and reaming to size for a bronze bushing. On these spindles, the holes are concentric with the kingpin inclination centerline and the surfaces of the top and bottom lugs are perpendicular to the centerline. The new kingpin was made from a piece of drill rod (not finished in the pic, it needs the cap to be made and installed). It uses an off the shelf industrial ball thrust bearing on the lower end. Of course, the axle needs to be made with the tall kingpin boss and I added a steering arm as I was not going to use the Pinto rack and pinion and get into the bump steer issues with it. The steering on the front is Ackermann correct as the Pinto is a front steer car anyway.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/FrontSpindle.jpg

It can be a pretty economical way to go...IF you have the capability to do all of the work yourself...but not if you need to farm it out.

GAB
12-21-2007, 09:27 AM
9 is what the kingpin inclination is. If you are thinking that you might use these with a typical early Ford axle by using a spacer above the axle boss, I'm not so sure that would be a good idea. If you tried to weld that spacer to the axle, it would be awfully hard to maintain concentricity of the centerline of the bore with the drawing that occurs when welding. The other thing is that the lug on the top does not have a lot of extra meat on the sides. I used a kingpin that is 3/4" diameter instead of the normal Ford 13/16" size. You would have to sleeve the original kingpin boss on the axle to the smaller size. Scratch building an axle is the easiest way to go...if you have the wherewithal to do it.

vistin
12-21-2007, 11:09 AM
GAB
I plan on making my front axle. If you have some plans for this, could you send them to me? I really appreciate your help with this. My email williamsonemelit@bellsouth.net

vistin

9 is what the kingpin inclination is. If you are thinking that you might use these with a typical early Ford axle by using a spacer above the axle boss, I'm not so sure that would be a good idea. If you tried to weld that spacer to the axle, it would be awfully hard to maintain concentricity of the centerline of the bore with the drawing that occurs when welding. The other thing is that the lug on the top does not have a lot of extra meat on the sides. I used a kingpin that is 3/4" diameter instead of the normal Ford 13/16" size. You would have to sleeve the original kingpin boss on the axle to the smaller size. Scratch building an axle is the easiest way to go...if you have the wherewithal to do it.

GAB
12-23-2007, 10:07 PM
Vistin,

I don't have any drawn plans for this setup, but I'll try to explain what and how I did it.

I began by drilling the ball joint holes out. I did this by bolting the spindle down on the Bridgeport table with a bolt through the hole on the opposite end. I used a single flue countersink to center the quill up over the hole. After lowering the table, I used a 55/64" dril bit and opened up the hole.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/PintoFrontEndParts001.jpg

The same procedure was then done on the other end.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/PintoFrontEndParts002.jpg

To finish the holes to size for pressing in the bronze bushings, I used a .875" reamer that I had modified to be able to insert through the drilled holes from between the lugs. By doing this, it is possible to ream one hole while guiding from the other one. It required a tapered sleeve to slip over the turned down section of the reamer shank and the taper to center the shank in the bored hole. Both ends are done this way.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/PintoFrontEndParts003.jpg

After both holes are prepped for the bushings, now is the time to weld on a steering arm if necessary. Any welding distortion can be cleaned up with another trip through with the reamer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/PintoFrontEndParts004.jpg

The kingpins are a piece of 3/4" drill rod that is 7" overall length. I made a couple of caps from 1-1/4" round bar stock that are 3/16" thick with a 1/2" hole. A little TIG rosette weld secures them. The thrust bearing is a D-5 part number. You will probably need to grind just a little on the top inside of the lower lug as the thrust bearing might not seat fully flat otherwise.

This axle is made from a piece of 1-3/4" D.O.M. tube with a wall thickness of .188". The straight section is 35" long to the tangent points of the bend and the bend is 25 on a 6" centerline radius die set. Of course, both bends are in the same plane. The distance between kingpin centers is 50". The kingpin bosses are a piece of 1-3/8" D.O.M. tube with wall thickness of .3125" (5/16") that is faced on each end with an overall length of 4-1/2". there is a drilled and tapped hole for a kingpin lock screw. The axle is notched for the kinpin bosses with a 1-3/8" cutter (holesaw or end mill) at a 16 angle to the bent end section of the tube.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/gbarnes/PintoFrontEndParts.jpg

I think that that pretty well covers it, but if you have any questions, let me know.

vistin
12-24-2007, 12:10 AM
gab.
Thanks for the info. Do you think this can be done without a machine shop?
The Pictures didnt work. I tried every way to view them but nothing.
vistin

GAB
12-24-2007, 11:21 AM
Vistin,
It probably wouldn't be very cost effective if you had to farm the machining operations out. They aren't very complicated or hard but can still eat up some time and those minutes add up pretty fast. If you are supplying the labor and equipment, then it is a pretty neat little setup.

I don't know why the pics are missing. They show up here on my computer. Did the original pic show up on the first post? The others were done the same way. ???? Anyone else missing the pics? They are hosted on Photobucket and linked with the IMG code.

RPM
12-24-2007, 03:03 PM
George that is really a great set up you have there.

tadpoledotnet
07-09-2008, 09:25 PM
Front suspensions....I'm going to use a 1982 Nissan/Datsun pickup for a donor vehicle and replace the front 'A' arms (upper and lower) with some I'll build from chrom-moly tubing. The pressed steel 'A' arms are butt ugly on anything where they can be easily seen. Since the stock front wheel location is too far back in relation to the engine placement, I'll either move the suspension forward or the engine back....perhaps both. I plan to use the truck frame as well, and realize that it will need to be shortened and perhaps narrowed. The Nissan has torsion bar front suspension which I will also re-use. I may want to turn about .040" off the diameters of the bars because of the reduction in vehicle weight. The 4-cyl. engine and 5 speed trans will be from the truck as well. I try to confine my antique collecting to butter churns and old box cameras....no cast iron, push rod American V-8's for me!
tadpole